Secondary Infertility Exposed
with Jennifer Redmond

This is an unedited transcript.

Welcome to this week’s episode of The Mondays podcast. I’m Holly Lowe, your host and I am so excited today to have our guest Jennifer Redmond joining us. She is an incredible certified integrative nutrition health coach. And the part that really grabs my heart is that she has a passion for helping moms and families who are dealing with secondary infertility attorn maybe some of us haven’t heard much about. And I really didn’t know what it even meant until I walked through this on an inner journey of my own. So welcome, Jennifer. And I want you to give us just a little snippet or background of you know how long you’ve been doing this and why you love doing this.



Yeah, yeah. Well, thank you. First of all, Holly, I’m so happy to be here. And fertility is a topic that’s near and dear to my heart. I’ve worked in the infertility space for like seven teen years, I think now, I started as a writer and editor in the infertility space. And through all my years of experience in that, you know, like interviewing doctors all over the country reporting on it. I was the editor in chief of a digital media company that focused on infertility. And what I realized through all that was that in the infertility space, so many of us are just focused on the illness and not focused on wellness. And it’s a fact that your fertility is more than your reproductive system. Right. So I went back to school, I studied integrative nutrition. And I’ve also had the privilege of studying with Dr. Eva ROM, I don’t know if you are you’re familiar with her and became a health coach to specifically support women with infertility. And I’m also a former fertility patients. So I get it from both the professional fees and the personal piece. Yeah, so it’s just super important to me. You know, as you alluded to, particularly when it comes to secondary infertility, you know, it comes as like a total shock for many women. So, yeah, that’s, that’s a little bit about what I do.



Well, and even I think I remember seeing the term for the first time as I was, so I’ll tell you really quickly. So I’m, I’m now in my 40s. And we’ve been trying for two years to have another child, we have three babies, I’ve been pregnant five times. And you know, we’ve we lost one near the end of the first trimester after my first baby, and then had my second is my rainbow baby and then had our third, you know, fairly close together there. And then you know, that maybe we’re done. Maybe we’re not. I was 30. When was he born? I was 38 when he was born, I believe. And I have I’ve never been in my whole life from the moment I was able to have a period and you know, potentially conceive, I have never had health issues. I am one of the healthiest people I’ve ever known. Never been on medications. I remember I used birth control for like, three months, right before we got married. And right after we got married, and I ended up having such crazy mental health issues from it that I ran the other way. So I’ve never had issues I’ve never, you know, struggled. And we quite literally got pregnant without even a thought put it that way. Or what was it even didn’t have a plan. I knew my body I knew my cycles. I was very predictable. So all that to say that when you know we did decide I thought, you know, yes, I am older. I know I’m over 40 now, but I’ve had clients ready to 46 have their first and second or fifth baby. So it never considered that this could be never entered my mind. And I remember after a year ago, we had another miscarriage in there. And I remember thinking that’s odd that hormonally everything looks normal. My cycles are normal, and nothing has changed. And age wise, I’m good physically. And I looked it up and I remember looking for the first time and that term came up secondary infertility and I was like, it’s a thing. I can’t possibly be me. So what do you say to two moms or two women who have had either one baby or maybe have had one or two And suddenly this is presenting itself and not always an age issue. It could be all kinds of things, right when it can’t look my first step like,



yeah, yeah. And that’s such a good point. It can be all kinds of things. And I think that, that, like you said, like, you haven’t even heard of the term, right. Most people don’t even know it exists, when in fact, today, secondary infertility, I think, is the most common form of infertility right now, so and some of it is age related. But, you know, things can also happen between that last pregnancy, and now that maybe you don’t even realize your hormones are off now, you know, there can be a number of things.






um, you know, the first thing that I say is, you know, like, let’s take a deep breath. Let’s try and figure out what the root cause is, you know, if you haven’t, if you’re, if you’ve been trying for a while, and it’s not happening, or you’ve had recurrent miscarriage, or even one miscarriage, you know, maybe you should see a specialist and get a workup and find out, you know, are my, you know, what is my ovarian reserve the number of eggs that I have? What does that look like? Or what are what are my hormone levels look like? And then just there are things you can start to look at, like I said, I think the first thing is take a deep breath, right? Like, unless, and then let’s explore and see if we can get to the root cause. It doesn’t mean you’re automatically going to fertility treatment by any means, but just to sort of get a good picture of what’s happening with your body.



For sure, absolutely. And I love that you said that, because we can, I know that we can sometimes either push it aside and just think, you know, oh, it’s not gonna work anymore. And that, that, but then there are people like I know, myself, and I’ve had many friends and family, you know, friends and friends of friends and all, you know, the acquaintances that we have over the years through this business, and as a birth professional that you meet, who were like, Oh, I would have loved to have had more, it just didn’t work out. And you go, will it? Was there more you could have done in there? You know, sometimes they’re saying no, it wasn’t such a big, you know, it wasn’t they were okay to move on. But then you meet those like me who are like, I know, I’m supposed to have more, you know, it’s just that burning feeling that this will have to work somehow. Where do you so kind of backing up a little bit? Where do you say, I know I’ve read this a few places where when you’re over they someone you’re over 38? They consider 38? I think geriatric pregnancies which geriatric pregnancy Thank you very funny. I was like, Yeah, I don’t think so. But I know that up to a certain point, they say, if you’ve been trying for X number of months, this is what we should be looking at getting a workup done, right? over this age, this amount of time you should be getting do you have? What’s the timeframe for that?



Yeah, so they generally say, if you’re under 35, and you’ve been trying for a year, unsuccessfully, then to then to see a specialist. And if you’re 35 or older, and six months, then to see a specialist.



So good to know, that realistic idea. Again, I’ve had mums, you know, between 25 to 35 in there who tried for three months and run off to get fertility help. And I’ll just say you can’t I mean, you can you can find out if they’re working fine. But it is good to have a realistic idea so that you’re not getting frustrated or concerned or worried and worked up over unframed when the reality is it could take a year for your body to get into that rhythm. And yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. So in that time for someone like yourself, if somebody has, we’ll take it to fold if somebody is in, let’s say that one year timeframe, are there things can do to just better our chances throughout that process before we take that next step?



Yeah, yeah, so definitely. So if we’re thinking about something like a quality, right, an egg takes about three months to mature, so 90 days, so if you can do some things to really kind of clean up your diet, and when I say what I call kind of green up your lifestyle, like why can be helpful. So, you know, I think it’s certainly an individualized approach, right? Like, everybody’s different. Everybody’s reason for not getting pregnant is different. Even if you had PCs or endometriosis. You’re You’re an individual and your situation is. But I think the first thing is to really think about really, eating, really increasing your intake of produce fruits and vegetables. Really, I like to say, you know, eat the rainbow. So you think about all the colors in the rainbow so that you’re getting variety of nutrients from all the foods that you’re eating, I would say most women who are trying all women who are trying to conceive should be on a prenatal vitamin. So even if it’s not happening yet, you know, don’t wait, you know, there’s a good time period to start prepping your body. I was actually



surprised how many women didn’t know that. I mean, I think I actually learned that quite early. And probably just because I was in that atmosphere of as a doula before I had children, I guess from midwives and things like that, but it isn’t common knowledge to just write write a little vitamin as soon as you’re of childbearing age to start, you know, get your body. Yeah,



yeah, absolutely, absolutely. You know, most women can benefit from what’s known as like a Mediterranean style diet, when you’re trying to conceive. So that’s heavier on produce healthy sources of protein, not a lot of red meat. So getting your protein from sources like wild fish, less chicken, beans, and whole grains. So if you think about what a Mediterranean Mediterranean diet looks like, that’s generally a really good example of how to eat if you’re trying to conceive. And I would say, eating organic as much as you can, is really important. You know, there was one study that showed that women with the highest pesticide loads in their systems had like, I think it was like a 35% less chance of pregnancy. So just to show, you know, those chemicals in our environment, and then when it comes to, you know, if you if you eat dairy, or if you eat meat, organic is really, really important, because hormones, you know, that are in animals, just the way that they’re processed. Again, you know, the pesticides, antibiotics, all that, but you just don’t really want that in your system. So often, you know, we just sort of think about starting with the food piece,



what are some,



you know, shifts that you can make there. without, you know, if you’re already if you have a family, right, you’re already trying to put dinner on the table, don’t want it to be like super hard, like now and, you know, cooking for, you know, this meant different things for this many people. But just easy ways to incorporate those changes into your diet, I think is a really good place to start.



That’s good. That’s is true. When you’re looking at us, you know, these are, these are families or we’re family with, you know, I’ve got three little ones. And that’s a little, little things are really good heat eaters. So the Mediterranean diet works beautifully in our house, we eat most of the time. But it’s it, we just leave it up to them, it’s their choice. But I really felt a huge shift when I have removed animal products. And it’s not for everyone, you have to we do we do fish, and we do eggs. So just because we have access to farm eggs, and you know, that type of thing. But we were able to kind of customize that to what our bodies wanted and needed, but I really did feel even in you know, monthly periods, even just not having cramping and less inflammation. And so yeah, it’s it’s worth, I really encourage women, it’s worth trying that out. It’s worth giving it its time, even if you did a 90 days of totally right. And let’s see how our body responds. And oftentimes, when you give it enough time, you’ll you’ll crave the good things. For my 13 year old says he’s like when every day and if we don’t, he’ll say, Can I just make a cell that I actually am craving?



That’s awesome. And you know, that’s, that’s such a good point that you make, because I think once we start tuning into it, like we’ll get the signals our body is, is giving us like, your body’s responding to what you’re eating, like in your example, right? Like, Oh, wait, my periods are less cramping, my flow is maybe shorter. My like my periods more regular. Yeah. Yeah. So I think not only like removing things from your diet, but then really paying to attend the attention to what’s happening. A lot of times my my clients will fill out for a few days, what I call a food mood and poop journal, you might have heard of this. It’s amazing, though. It’s like I ever did. Yeah, just really helping you to tune into your body and then to also make sure that you’re pooping every day, because that just eliminates the toxins.



Yeah. And well, that’s the thing is this toxic load this toxic buildup, it affects us in so many ways. But I think also we were moving into generations of women who aren’t as tuned into their bodies. Because we’re busy, right? We missed the signals until it’s yelling at us, right? Yeah, we missed it until it is PCs, or until we have no mutual symptoms or getting to a crisis state. And then we go, Oh, well, where did this come from? When I was probably talking to us through you know, a skin rash a year ago or me right, or just bloating or things that you just put up with or you know, over the counter deal with? Yeah, I think it is. The the journaling was really eye opening for me so much. So that again, I did it with my kids, because I was seeing I was seeing mood, it was mostly mood it was just focus and attention and mood issues for them. Which were subtle, and I just figured why not. I mean, if I saw such a shift, I could do this with them as well. And again, my oldest is very intuitive. So he was really good at saying like, what he feels he needs and what He feels affected them. So when you kind of I guess this is a lot of topic, but I think if we are empowered with specialists, like you were empowered with the language, and you tune in, it’s really cool how we can then turn around and empower other people, you know, or Yeah, yeah, definitely, you know, how to vocalize that, you know,



right. You know, many, many years ago, I did an elimination diet just because I



thought, you know, I’m



learning about this, I’m going to try it and see, excuse me, and I didn’t realize that gluten makes me congested. I had no idea. I thought I didn’t know what it was. And I gone to doctors, and I’ve gone to specialists. And I was like, I just feel like I’m always congested, and my ears are kind of full. And you know, nothing, nothing, nothing. And then I have gluten and I was like, holy cow, which has happened, like we’re



gonna go. Yep.



my six year old and we always thought it was a he does have his seasonal allergies would take really no problem for him. But it was beyond that. It was just all year long. And he would snore really heavy and a lot of pletely dairy freaks. My daughter has a dairy allergy. So we’ve never, he’s never had dairy in his life. So I was like, it’s not that I know that causes it to. So it wasn’t until we started eliminating gluten is amazing, right? You know, our body is just our gut. But again, our foods are not the way they were so high and under with like you said, it’s no wonder our reproductive systems have an issue with that, because our gut, so closely connected to everything down there, right?



Everything and inflammation is connected to everything. And so if you’re eating a food that’s causing an inflammatory response, which many of you many women will do well, with? eliminating dairy to for a period of time? Because that can be you know, you just said that, you know, that can be inflammatory. So, um, you know, and again, it doesn’t have to be forever. Yeah, because sometimes our bodies can reset, like our bodies have this amazing ability to repair themselves kind of given the chance, right, so



I think we overdo it. We’re in a, we’re in an eating habit. And especially in North America, where we’re so heavy on the meat, white grains and dairy. Those are like our main food groups, right? To take the I love using the the ROB pyramid, the raw food pyramid or the holistic food pyramid because it’s top heavy with everything raw green, leafy dark, though, all those rainbows. Yeah, and all that other stuff kind of gets filtered down throughout. And you said take it out for a time. You know, even I tell a lot of my mama’s I’m like, even just go six months, if you can even slowly wean yourself off things like dairy and, and red meats for a while, you might have certain points in your month where you crave some red meat habit, right? Eat it, right, we eliminate it to the point where we can just back it up. And then oh, yeah, you know what I can do without that? I still want a bit of that. I don’t know. I just feel like in some things, I feel it should be an all or nothing deal with dairy. I really. And that’s just from working with specialists with my daughter. There was a great amount of dairy for her. And we learned a lot about the proteins and dairy and how long it takes to clear them from your body. So I always tell people, if you’re going to eliminate dairy, eliminate it, like just get it out. Right go by for a while. Give it three you know, about three months, those 90 day windows are really important to



totally Yeah, yeah. You know, bring it in slowly and see what your body says.



Yeah, just listen, just listen. Yeah, and I think you know, that we also have to realize that you there’s no such thing as like, mostly gluten free or most Radio



Free. Things sneak in, you know, so you’re gonna hear that from people. Do you hear them? I only have a little bit. Yeah,



I only put milk in my coffee once a day. I have so many people in my life who were like that, but I only have one yogurt once a day. Right? for about two weeks to get rid of.



Yeah. And then to your point earlier about your son with the salads, you know, what happens is when you start eating all this good stuff, and all the stuff that’s really your body’s really responding to and is really nourishing your body, then you kind of crowd out the bad stuff like you almost don’t even realize you’re not getting it because it’s taking up all this good stuff is taking up room and filling you up and really nourishing you So absolutely, it’s cool. That’s a cool concept.



What would you say? Talking about nutrients and just getting the the biggest bang we can for our bodies. And we I mean, we know our foods, and even if you ate a completely vegan raw diet, you’re still gonna miss because our food just doesn’t have the impact it needs anymore. So where do you go with that? Is that something that you advise on? Do you give information on how to supplement from there? Yeah,



so I don’t, I don’t. So it’s sort of out of my scope of service to recommend specific supplements. I can educate about them, but I can’t really recommend them. I will say from a supplement perspective It’s great to get as much as you can from your food. But then there definitely are instances where you do have to supplement like studies have shown, really, you know, the powerful effects of vitamin D with fertility. I know some fertility specialists that have started prescribing cokie tan, which is an antioxidant, or even prescribing, which you could get at a health food store, but like us, I capsules, because they’re really high in antioxidants. You know, some? Yeah, there’s a wide range of them. But I would say, you know, every woman, as we said, Can can benefit from the prenatal vitamin. And then, you know, I would just sort of talk to your specialist about those other things. But there have been some good studies around supplementation. Definitely.



That’s good to know. Yeah. And that’s, that’s something Personally, I work with a naturopath. So if that’s an option for people, they’re great for that, too, because they have a pretty good, you know, clear line on what what supplements were for what and it’s funny, you said that, so cookie 10 was one of my naturopath started me on based on my blood work. And then nak, which I know has been taken off the market in the US, right, they removed? Yeah, easy. So I don’t know if I was gonna come here to get it now. Or if they’re taking it out of candidates here, I’m not sure. It works really well for that as well. But having some of those those antioxidants, and rich foods, too, I think when you realize that’s what those are for. Right? How it helped me when I said to her, what’s the cookie 10? for what’s because I didn’t think of I’m like, I’m not that old. Yet, like, my joints are good. And all these she’s like, No, no, no, that’s not what we’re doing here. So when you have a bit of an understanding of what it’s doing, then even looking for some of those, like you said, the ACI and things that are higher antioxidants, and you’re fresh berries, and you’re exactly all the things that are going to support that anyway, that’s Yeah, yeah. It’s only got a Google all around. Yeah, absolutely. Love that. So I want to know a little bit about what you are doing program wise, or what people can do. So I know you and I had talked briefly about so I have a fertility cleanse program that we run on our website, it’s simply, like I said, it’s just to get people down to kind of get your gut to ground zero and get you cleaned up and ready for the next step. So I like that, because a lot of people didn’t know, you know, how to eliminate things or how to even get started. So yeah, it’s just an introduction to, here’s why we’re doing some of the personal changes. And then I like to hand them off to someone like you and say, Now, that’s your area of expertise. Yeah,



they can do as a next step, then, awesome. And I love I love that idea of doing like that gut reset, because just just like inflammation is linked to, like your gut health is linked to all health, you know, so that’s such an important piece. Yeah, so I work with clients in two ways. I work with them in a one on one program, it’s a four month program, we generally start with the food piece, I have certain phases that I program that I bring my clients through, but we generally always start with the food, and then I just kind of meet them where they’re at. So depending on what their need is. So often, very quickly, we get into the mind body piece, and we start working on stress reduction. You know, finding, finding the tools that are going to work for them, meditation is often a big part of it, sometimes depending on the person’s journaling, or just establishing a gratitude practice. So sort of whatever that looks like for them. We also look at the role exercise and movement plays in their life. We look at just sort of it’s a really holistic approach. So you know, I start with this sort of health history or view, it’s a health history, if I give them not sort of the one you would get at a at a regular doctor, I’m not a doctor, that you are getting your MDS office, you know, looking at everything from you know, your health and passing your menstrual health, the health of your family, what you ate as a child, what you eat. Now, you know, the role that sports and exercise plays in your life? How are you sleeping, all those things, and then we really take this kind of holistic approach, just to leave no stone unturned in looking at what might be the root causes and helping them to find balance in their body and ultimately, you know, boost their fertility. So that’s one way that I work with women. And then the other thing that I’m doing that I’m super excited about is I’m launching a group program that’s actually gonna start on Tuesday evening. It’s via zoom, because we’re all still, you know, not meeting in person yet, but I’m near reach as well. Right. Yeah. Which is great, which is great. Yeah. And so I’m, I’m co leading it with a woman named Carrie Hines, who is the founder and creator of fertile body yoga. So it’s a Yeah, it’s gonna be I’m super excited about it. Honestly, I wish I had had this when I was going through fertility treatment, which is one of the reasons that we did it. So it’s a five week program. Every week, there’s going to be a live training so on things like what we just talked about, you know, nutrition and fertility, stress management. What else, we have a session on, I’m just looking, oh, a session on balance, we’re going to talk about, you know, sort of looking at your cycle, but then also that sort of like reading after lifestyle, we’re getting rid of eliminating toxins, you know, that sort of thing. We’re going to talk about self care. And so there’s going to be a training and a q&a every week, Carrie is going to lead a short meditation and a 30 minute fertility yoga practice. And then we have a private portal where we can connect and answer questions and support each other in between our sessions. And we’re actually also doing this. We’ve brought in some fertility experts, fertility doctors, who are also going to be available on our, in our interactive message chat to sort of answer specific questions. So it’s super comprehensive, and I think it’s just gonna be this really nice container. You know, for women.



It’s five weeks, once a week and yeah, I’m really really excited about it. What do I sign up?



You know, we are keeping it small. We have we have a few spots left. But yeah, so if you don’t mind, I will tell you where people can sign up on your website, which is Jen Redmond, je e n n r e d. Mo MD comm slash foundations, the name of the program is fertility Foundation’s. That’s what we were hoping you do you know, at the end of five weeks, you’ve just sort of built this stronger and more fruitful foundation. So yeah, I’m super jazzed about it.



Well, you know what the great thing is, I can actually pull that into our programs called fertile ground. So there you go. We, we know the foundations are important, right? Well, we’ll go into that as well. So they know, thank you. I always want a next step. Like I don’t want people just to do this, and then go, not what I want and guidance. stuff. So that’s, that’s beautiful that you guys are doing that. And I love that anyway, I’m happy to help. Thank you so much. Thank you. I know, that’ll be something that especially when you’re talking about secondary infertility, you know, mamas sometimes aren’t in their busy, right, and you’re raising other kids and being able to pop on and be a part of a community. Yeah, that support is golden. And I’ve, I’ve sought that out. And I’ve been, you know, loving that and just having the opportunity, you know, even to meet people like yourself, but even working with other moms and other fertility doctors and being able to get to know what their views are on this and, you know, support each other in a holistic manner. Because we have, we have all the medical options available to us. And we, you know, you can walk in and find that out. That’s very cool. But to even know what those steps are to have somebody, you know, in a way, virtually hold your hand and say, I get it, you know, yeah,



yeah, absolutely. And I think I think that’s such an important point about the company, because, particularly, I mean, for all women going through infertility, a lot of women just don’t realize how many other women are dealing with it. And I think I’ve heard from my clients with secondary infertility, that there’s almost like this stigma, like, well, you already have kids, why aren’t you happy with what you have, right? And so it’s just it’s nobody understands, you know, your journey, except for maybe women who are going through something similar. And so I think, you know, in our group program, it’s open to any anyone, regardless of what stage they’re in, if they’re just having a hard time conceiving, if they’re in treatment, if they already have kids, and they’re trying to have more kids, they’re gearing up for another cycle, because I do think that community piece is really lacking.



So I love it. I love it. Yeah, there, there is a group I’m in with another program I had done previously. And I actually left the group I ended up saying, you know, I love what you’re doing. But I can’t, I didn’t, I never posted anything, because everyone that I saw posting, they were all in their 30s in the head, you know, conditions that were they were all going most of them are going through IVF or some form of fertility treatment. I was like this, I don’t feel like that’s my community. But when you know that you’re in an integrated group, where you have all of them, right. I actually love that. Because, you know, we can be an encouragement to some moms in other ways. And then they heard my testament. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, I look forward to seeing your program. I’m going to check it out and being able to promote that and I will make sure all your stuff will be added in as well.



Thank you so much. It’s such a pleasure. I’m such a fan of what you’re doing. And I’m so glad we’ve had the opportunity to connect them and just, you know, share this information and you know, that you’re bringing so much of you and your life to it, I think is it It’s just really beautiful and helpful to women. So yeah, this has been such a treat.



Well, I know we’ll talk more because I think we could pull out a topic from everything we’ve talked about today. And maybe we can just talk about the mind and body connection. And we can just talk about



those are all good. That’s awesome.



Thank you. Perfect. Because that wv. I loved it. Great. I honestly, I mean, I’m not not to put you on the spot. But if you ever do want anything, I’m I’ve been a kind of guest experts on removing toxins, how to remove your toxic load in your home, things like that. So if you ever need anything for me, it’s always free. You know, everything I teach is free. So awesome. That’s



really good to know. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that. Yeah, I’m so glad we’ve had the opportunity to connect really, I don’t see this being like a one and done.



Absolutely not. I’m really excited. And I know our fertile ground groups like we were doing community as far as Facebook groups, and it just got too much for me at the time, because when I realized I was going through. I know like, I honestly went through a real issue for about a year, it was a little last year when we were just starting into all of this, where I just kind of felt like a fraud. And all of a sudden, like I felt really heavy that how can I run this group when I’m struggling? Right? Well, it was how I got pregnant with my third, like it made sense and how I got pregnant. That’s why I created the program. So anyone who I think anyone who’s in a position where you’re teaching, or you’re educating on a topic, and suddenly it becomes very personal. I’m sure we all have that.



Yeah, yeah. going on. But yeah, yeah, absolutely. And, you know, it’s, I think, I run a peer led support group for resolve New England, which is a local infertility, small infertility, nonprofit, I’m actually on their board, and I run a monthly peer led support group for them. And one of the things that I hear from women too, is that when they are in these communities, and they get pregnant, they’re no longer welcome. And so I could see where if you’re dealing with secondary infertility, it’s got to be, you know, sort of tricky to navigate. Right?



Okay, as well. And there was that the one group I was in, she’s actually I don’t know if you know, she’s super well known American doctor that I paid a lot of money to work with. And at the end of the day, I was like, I already know all this stuff. And I was concerned about that. And I did, I didn’t know going in that it might not be new to me, you know, the program might be, might not be anything that was mind blowing, I really was just trying to find someone, I was trying to find an American fertility, because we can’t get anywhere with our doctors here. I was trying to find someone I could actually pay to have as my doctor like I was willing to pocket. And so that’s for what I thought I was getting, but I didn’t. So I’m at that point now where I’m like, I don’t know, we’ve we’re not talking adoption and things like that. But we haven’t given up, I haven’t given up hope. We’ll see what happens. Hope is such a big piece of the process. huge. It’s huge. I have a lot of friends who are watching, you know, watching us go through this, and a very close friend of mine said to me recently, she’s like, I don’t know how you keep getting negative credit, you know, negative tests each month, and you can keep trying, and I’m like, there’s lots of times I don’t know how either, but when you feel it when you just I don’t know, in my mind, I figure why not? No, I got stressing myself out about it. But why not? Why not keep tracking and see how things are going? It’s more mind boggling to me that my body can all my tests are positive, like everything’s good. My hormones are in the right, they’re actually really good. Nothing I haven’t done is agriserve. So that was the one piece that I was right. Trying to get someone here to help me with because I don’t even know what that process looks like, you know, how do they even



check. The fertility clinic who’s participating with us in fertility foundations is ccrm fertility. Are you familiar with them? Whoa, the Colorado center for Reproductive Medicine. But they like many fertility clinics are now establishing, like satellite clinics across the country. And William schoolcraft, who is a scientist and a fertility doctor and the founder and he founded it. It’s got to be at least 20 years ago, he was one of the doctors that I’ve interviewed a bunch just sort of back in my last career Well, anyway, he’s always been on like the cutting edge of things and was one of the first doctors to really believe in like the importance like he was one of the first virtually doctors to have like an acupuncturist, in this office and group in his office. They’re their doctors in Boston, or what are the doctors who are partnering with us? They’re just gonna, they’re just being available to our to the women who signed up for our program to answer questions because they really believe in a holistic approach in conjunction with I know they do have a clinic in Canada. I don’t know where okay, but it’s ccrm fertility. I’ll look it up. Yeah, I’ll take Yeah. And then somebody else In a fertility, another fertility doctor in the US he’s actually in New York is What is his name? I can see his face. I’ll send it to you. I would appreciate that. Yeah. I can’t believe it’s run into one time. It’ll come to me, but he’s another one who really is. This book on my bookshelf. Anyway, I’ll send it to you. Okay, perfect. I know. Look at that one out for sure. Yeah, ccrm.



I mean, at this point, I don’t hold much hope for even my own family doctor hasn’t seen patients since last spring. So it’s only phone calls. He won’t even show up to the office, which is not normal. We have a lot of other doctors who are completely back to work here. But we’re still in lockdown. Complete lockdown. So it’s wild. I mean, ridiculous. And if the board is rope, and we’re typically world travelers as a family, and I would be over there in a heartbeat, you know, we would just met in months there and go do whatever we needed to do. Right, right. Yeah. So the frustration for me is that I’ve lost a year I feel like this should have been wait. And like I said, I’m working with my natural path. And we’ve done everything we can think of test wise and nutrition wise and you know, I’ve never felt better. But like, yeah,



yeah, that I’ll still send us info but his last name is kilts. k i l Tz. Okay. And he’s another one who was total Cindy’s info who’s just you know, really, he’s actually he did a book with a woman that I’m friends with. On she’s a nutritionist, but she does fertility. And so like they did a book together. And so yeah, anyway, I’ll send you that info. That’s helpful. Yeah. I appreciate it. Thank you. So much. We will definitely talk more. Okay. Absolutely. Okay, well, I’m good afternoon. You too. Bye.