Pregnancy Loss & Healing

with Sharna Southan

This is an unedited transcript.


Well, welcome back to the Mondays podcast. I’m your host, Holly Lowe. And this week to go along with our amazing in depth theme that we’ve been doing for the last little while on trauma and all things related to trauma. I am so lucky to have all the way from Australia, I this is how we get to do things without hopping on a plane, right? The amazing Sharna southen is with us. And I have to tell you, it was just as much work just to get us coordinated in our timezone. Again, in our timezone change times. And it was just so funny. Anyway, we’ve managed to work it out. And we’re all here together. And this is really great. So thank you for being here, I’m going to I’m going to give a little snippet of who you are and why we’re chatting today. But I know you can give us a little more information about your, your passions and what your background is. But Sharda is a brief mom and a rainbow mom, same as myself. And she’s a pregnancy loss coach using those experiences to redefine pregnancy loss, and empower women through that whole experience. Because really, there’s so much takeaways, even in grief, even in the hurts, there is a lot that we can glean from that experience. So thank you for being here. I’m looking forward to chatting with you.

Thank you so much for having me. And it was just had a little giggle to myself because there was a lot of back and forth trying to get the time zones, right. And then the time zones changed, right? Like we finally

figured it out. And then Eastern Daylight Savings times through it all into a loop.

I know where we’ve had our change a couple of months ago, so I went through the whole thing then and I’ll go through it all again at the other end. I know it’s so confusing.

They just make it so difficult for us.

Just keep it i like i like daylight savings just keep it as fun

parents like why do we still need this? This is not needed anymore.

In the fall we always get an extra hour in the fall and they will be completely thrown off down the road. Yeah, I’m not a scientist. As you can tell, I’m

sure it could work. We’ll figure it out. Anyway, a little bit off topic. I lie. All the parents can relate. Oh, it throws my body out throws my daughter’s body are and for like the first you know, few weeks. I’m like Why? Why is this even happening? Right? Oh my gosh, that’s and as I get older I’m like I really can’t my body’s like I I’m so tired.

Why is why are watching a show the other day we’re falling asleep at nine o’clock on the couch. We’re going what is happening to us? That old? Oh, right. Yes. Anyway. So I would love to know a little bit more. I mean, if you want to share a bit of your story, feel free. A lot of our listeners have heard our recent story of our loss. And it really is what launched me into this theme. Because when we went through this recent one, you know, at 12 Weeks was much more intense for me than I’d ever been through. We’d lost another baby at nine weeks. I have a rainbow rainbow baby among my three children. And it definitely is something that this time woke me up even more I think because the first time I was in the thick of it with my little one my firstborn, and kind of just had to pick up and keep going. And I realized now looking back that all the amazing wonderful experts I’ve learned from and got to speak with. I was much more aware this time around to allow myself time to grieve and to you know allow my family Like to grieve and all the things that we had to feel and talk about to really process it. That was new for me. And it was something that brought to light. I such a need. And it’s not that it hasn’t been there. It’s always been there, as you know. So tell me a little bit about how you got there and why you’re doing what you’re doing.

Yeah, so I kind of just want to touch on to like, I know, he’s like you said, you, you’ve gone through a couple of losses to feel like then all of a sudden, you’ve had this like awakening and you’re like, wait a minute, like, I actually need to do something here I need to process. You know, I want to kind of rewind a little bit because my, I guess my journey with grief started when I was 19 when my dad passed away. So that was like, I, I fell into a deep depression. I didn’t want to see anyone I didn’t want to leave my room. I wanted to leave every single day. Like he was still alive for like a year. And it was I look back at that now. And like I kind of I thought that I was processing things. But I really wasn’t. And I look back at that time. And it was a very hard time. And it was something I guess I needed to experience as part of my journey, part of my lessons in my life to to experience that to know what the depression feels like, and know that it’s not healthy. It’s not being in that place doesn’t serve you when you want when you’re trying to relive being in the presence of that person that you love. So when we experience a missed miscarriage in 2017, and I was they said it was seven weeks along I don’t I don’t know if it was a boy or a girl. I don’t know. I thought it was about 10 weeks, like from what I could what I gathered. So we had already started telling people that we were pregnant, just close family and friends. And when we went into the ultrasound clinic like to hear those words, I’m sorry, there’s no heartbeat like that was it was my worst nightmare. But it was a nightmare I didn’t even know existed until I was in that. I’m like, No, I’m like, No, that can’t be. That can’t be right. Don’t Don’t just leave it there and keep looking, keep searching. There has to be something there. Because we had been trying to conceive for about five years. So it was something that we really, you know, yeah, I thought it was going to come easily. And you know, my mom always said to me, you know, my dad would like hold hands with her and she’d fall pregnant. And I was like, you know, stuff like that it does you think growing up without those sort of comics. You think you know, it’s easy. Yeah. So, when that happened, you know it, our whole world just was shattered. It was our first pregnancy. So essentially, I thought at that point that I was broken, that I was never ever going to have children again. I thought that meant that I was infertile. I had no idea really what the whole process meant. They shuffled us off to our GP, she kind of gave really a brief this is what you’ll experience when you get home. She told me that it takes usually about three weeks for your body to realize that the the baby isn’t viable anymore. And then you start to miscarry. And so I was kind of at that three week mark thinking that I was about 10 weeks and it had passed at seven. So it didn’t take long for me to start the process like the miscarrying process at home. But what was happening was I was I ended up bleeding so much and passing out every time I would end up and then experiencing contractions on top of that, and I was tight. I have epilepsy as well. So I can only take Panadol I can’t take strong relief and for contractions I was taking Panadol like paracetamol like it’s

the basic. It’s our version of Tylenol or Advil. Yeah. Yeah,

the basic the, you know, lowest level pain relief that you can get, and just like I can’t, I was crying. I don’t I don’t think I slept the night actually leading into my doctor’s appointment that following day. I just kept waking up crying, like in pain. And when the ambulance came and got me there, like, Why didn’t you call sooner? And I was like, I didn’t know. Yeah, I, I was Googling it. I didn’t know that this wasn’t normal. So I said to my husband, he’s like I said, How long is the bleeding meant to last and he’s like, Oh, it can last up to 10 days, like, according to Google. I was like, I’m going to die. And I legitimately thought I was going to die. I rang my mom. And I had my I was laying on the floor with my feet in the air. And I rang her and I said, I’m going to die. Like, I can’t do this anymore. And I remember writing all of this out and taking it to a psychologist. And she’s like, just reading it. And she was speechless. She was like, I cannot believe you. You like, this is actually what you were experiencing. This is like, look, like proper trauma. And the whole experience was, I legitimately thought I was going to die. So I think I don’t even remember talking to her that first session, I just cried. But they, they rushed me off to the hospital ended up getting a DNC. Because they said to me that my body just wasn’t, it wasn’t going to stop on its own. Like it was just going to sort of keep going through the motions. And yeah, so they put me on heavy, heavy pain relief at that point, because obviously, I had to. And yeah, they got me in for surgery. Not long after I got there, and then sent me home. And, you know, I think for a long time after our experience, like after being coming home from the hospital, I was, I felt like, I couldn’t cry anymore. I felt like I had cried so much that I couldn’t cry anymore. And, and then I was just numb. And I remember mom telling me that, um, you can go you can still experience like the baby blues, essentially, without having a baby. And I was like, This is the worst experience ever. I I had contractions I’ve been experiencing my, the really deep, like mood lows, like the deep emotional lows, and I don’t have a baby to show for it. So that was all such a, a hard thing to wrap my head around. But um, yeah, so I kind of in a nutshell, that was, that was my experience.

I like I like you said it was proper trauma. It’s, it’s funny, because we have these defining moments in our life where we can look and go, Oh, my goodness, that actually was traumatic, like, that deeply impacted me, as a person as a human being with a soul. It has imprinted on me who I am. And how I respond to that is all part of that. So it’s true. And I think as women so often, we brush it off as well. That’s just the way our bodies worked. And that’s how lots of women this go they go through this. And that’s that. I know. Yeah, like the first time around, I just felt like, well, great. My body did what it was supposed to do, must have needed to happen, whatever. But yeah, inside I was wrecked. Like it just it didn’t feel that way. And the same, I can still relate to all those, the postpartum fields and all the hormone changes, and I would lose them every time I would lose my appetite for weeks. And I remember talking to our midwives after this last one. And her just reminded me that there is a lot of emotional load involved in what you just went through. You can’t ignore your body on a cellular level understands that trauma, even if your brain is trying to rationalize it, is what made me look into this even more because I thought that’s this is a very impactful moment. And and we’re talking about birth trauma and pregnancy loss. But there are other parts of our lives, maybe our childhood or any experiences we had that have imprinted on us and can affect our ability to get pregnant, it can affect and I lost my dad, I can relate to that, too. I lost my dad and I remember, every time I’d walk into my parents house, and I hear the door close, I’d look up to think he was coming home, you know, just that. That instinctive thing that you you want to recreate. You want to feel that all the time and that was a deep trauma that later when we get pregnant again, it had impacted my body. Even though my brain felt like I aggrieved. I’d done all the things, it hits our bodies and our body doesn’t lie, right? It’s just our emotions don’t lie. We can try and lie to ourselves or hide them or cope in other ways. But poetry

Yeah, I was like going into Have like you said it, how it impacts your body on a cellular level, until I started to really understand that I’ve had lower back pain my whole entire life. And now realizing that that is where, you know. And, like suppressed emotions can can actually sit and grief and sadness. And I was like, okay, yep, that makes sense. Because I totally until I’m, I’m still processing my dad’s death like I am still processing he’s that experienced that grief. And I thought I’d like you said, you know, you think you’d do it in your mind. But in your body, like yet, there’s still so much we, we try to get back to a sense of normal by ignoring the emotions because they are an inconvenience. Because like, I can’t cry now. Because, you know, I’m out or whatever. That’s right. Like I can’t be an emotional wreck now.

We’re just falling apart, falling reminded me or that person looked like or it’s so many times where I remember going through a drive thru at the coffee shop that he would always go to the drive thru at. And this was years after he had passed away. And I remember hearing the person ordering inside his coffee, and it was just like, in my head, I’m going that is the dumbest thing ever. But I had tears in my eyes. And I was trying to like, pull it together. And giving me my order the windows, I’ll be thinking what is wrong with you? Yeah, it’s those, it’s those moments that I would never have, like, in my conscious mind was not thinking that through, but in the emotional level of our bodies that’s printed on us. And that you’re right, that grieving process. It goes on, it doesn’t just okay, I’m done. I’ve gone through the final stage of grief. And now we’re good. It’s okay. I’m going to go. I wish it was that simple. But it doesn’t because you know, my kids might my oldest reminds me of my dad. So he’ll do something or he looks a lot like him, or he’ll do something that reminds me of him. And it just, it will just pop up out of nowhere. Or, you know, the other day, I was putting some things away. And because we had gotten, you know, past the three month mark with this pregnancy, I had pulled out some baby things I had, you know, the car seat, I was cleaning things up. And that’s all sitting outside our storage room. And I’m like, Oh, I have to put that away. And it’s that feeling all like it all came up again of that disappointment and the regret and the just that grief. And there was moments will come. And I think we I and I say this a lot because I know men are told this just as much. So it’s not that I’m saying it’s only women. But when it comes to birth and when it comes to our birth experiences, living babies are not we I across the board, I feel like we have always been told to just kind of be quiet and deal with it. Right. And because we’re the only ones who really can understand that insurance. As a woman, I my partner, I cannot expect them to understand they grieve to in their own way. But I think we owe it to ourselves to honor that process and to acknowledge it and do exactly what you’re doing. Because it’s so needed in our bodies and our souls. And for future generations. I mean, I have a daughter and for her to watch me go through this. This time, I felt I felt a bit of a burden in a good way to show her it’s okay to process this. It’s okay to cry. It was for me to be sad. It was okay for it to come out of the blue. And that’s quite normal personality. So yeah. So I think there’s, there’s so much to that processing that just keeps going.

Yeah, yeah. And like you said, it does pass down to generations. Because if you’re, if you’re keeping that bottled up, or you’re keeping you’re hiding that away from your children, they’re going to think that feeling emotion isn’t normal. My, my daughter, my daughter is so emotional right now. And it’s way too emotional for my

oldest is your daughter.

Three and a half.

So it gets better at nine. I just wanna let you know.

I gotta wait till nine. Okay.

No, I mean, it gets worse so sarcastic. Wait till like nine is like the new three. Apparently. i Yeah, I thought 13 would be the thing but

it just it just changes doesn’t it? Like every time you think oh, they’ll get to that agent will be okay. And it won’t it just it isn’t like it’s just different. But I need to show her that showing that her expressing her emotions. It’s okay for her to cry. It’s okay. And it’s she’s okay to, you know, to her degree be able to tell me what’s actually happening for her and not to shut her up not to, to stop her from crying because essentially, then she’s going to take up lift through with her that she can’t show emotion. And she will be then the one that will keep suppressing it. And, you know, and I actually have come across women who have been in that environment with their, their families. It were it was a sign of weakness to show emotion. So now as an adult, she doesn’t cry. And I’ll just edit all of these, like, you know, challenging times in her life, she’s never cried. And I’m like, your body in its natural state is always trying to come back to balance, it’s always trying to come back to a state of, you know, homeostasis, and essentially, emotions are energy emotions, designed to come and just to keep moving through you. They’re not designed to stay stuck within you, without energy inside of you is not healthy. And I can’t imagine, I’ve always been one to cry at the smallest little things too. So you know, my daughter’s probably just may reincarnate. But I’m, I’m quite comfortable showing my emotion, I’ll cry. She’s seen me cry. She’s, you know, she’ll, she’ll go up and give kids a cuddle with their crying, increasing empathy. It’s beautiful. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, I don’t, I could only imagine what you know, this other might, this girlfriend of mine had been through to not be able to show her emotion and now in as an adult, she knows that it’s not right. She’s like, acknowledged she’s like I, but I just physically can’t. Yeah, um, and yeah, I’m just with everything that I know about emotions and how they, they are a natural part of you, they aren’t negative, they aren’t positive, your body just just acknowledges them as emotions. Were the ones that give it a negative or positive meaning. But it’s just designed to come through you and it’s, a lot of the emotions are designed to be released. They’re very much releasing something within you. Well, it’s it

the idea that tears can you know, it might sound corny, but tears are very healing they are it’s a release that your body on and again, I come back to the cellular aspect, because that’s where my where I love to look. But yeah, I teach a class on it’s called Essential emotions. And it’s the science of emotions. And when you look at what emote emotions seem like this flighty thing floating in our body that just hits us without warning, right? It is completely a physical reaction within ourselves, that happens, it’s an interaction with cell receptors and with, you know, pulling it into yourself life and how it affects your physical body, your mind all of it. And like you said, that energy vibrating in there and those cells in our body isn’t meant to be contained and pushed down or repressed. It’s meant to be released. So it’s such a good reminder, because, again, sometimes as moms, we just feel like we have to hold it all together. Or we need to get on with life. People need us. You know, this was the first time my daughter said to me, I’ve never but she’s like, I’ve never seen you cry before. Like, that’s probably true.

Like I have cried, what have you. Exactly.

It’s true. But that was a very eye opening statement for me because it was just that it’s that feeling of I do need to keep it all together. And you know, I am the the mum who keeps it all together for everybody. But I did cry when I you know, but not in front of you. And it wasn’t that she was you know, criticizing it at all. It was more of a well, I’m sad too. And so are you. Oh, so this is okay. And she had cold right up beside me in bed while I was recovering. And we both cried. It was just it was very healing. And I know it was for her because she’s a tough little cookie too. Like it’s hard for her to let that sadness show. Our kids are such good teachers for all that kind of stuff, right?

It’s beautiful. I love it forever teaching us I’m she’s forever teaching me. Yeah, no.

So speaking of our rainbow baby, so my daughter’s my rainbow baby as well. Tell me a little bit about that experience or just what our listeners in general if they are facing another pregnancy or trying to get pregnant again or, you know, in the midst of one was like what does that look like? You know, I can share my feelings but it’s nice to hear it from someone else. But it seems a bit universal. It really does. It’s not. Each of our stories are unique, but those fears are very universal.

Yeah. I’ve been doing a lot of sort of talking around this as well. Recently just in the whole parenting thing. After loss sort of space as well, because it all actually stems back to really addressing your loss, it all comes back to really feeling those emotions after your loss. Because if you if you don’t acknowledge them, and you don’t allow them the space to be heard, that then is heightened in trying to conceive, and it’s heightened again, in the pregnancy itself and could potentially stop you from connecting to the baby, because you’re afraid of connecting to it, and then maybe losing it. My, my, for me, I didn’t start trying again until I was mentally ready until I would I asked myself if I was able to fall pregnant, and I lost it, how would I cope? Right? Because I needed to know that I was going to be okay. If everything if the worst case scenario was going to happen again. Because I know a lot of women who try and fall pregnant just to fill that space to fill the void. And it’s not necessarily the way it’s going to happen. Because essentially, if it happened again, they’re their emotions, they’re just going to, you know, the floor is going to open up and they’re gonna swallow the whole because

I’m on top of trauma, they’re just built. Yeah, it’s just

in a cave embedding into itself and creating more of a, like a bigger problem and bigger issues, emotionally and physically. So, you know, I had to make sure I asked myself that specific question. I’m like, if I was to lose this baby, how would I cope? And, you know, when I could answer that, and I could be okay, like, I would hurt I would, it would be, you know, a horrible experience again, but I would be okay. I wasn’t going to, you know, I acknowledged the depression. And I knew that, you know, I could cope before that was going to come through. So we started trying again, and I think it was about maybe about the second month of trying that we that we fell pregnant. And it was a very reserved happiness, because we were like, Oh, yay, like we’re pregnant. But you know, don’t really want to go over the over the top. We told everyone again, essentially, as soon as we found out because we knew we wanted the support, straightaway, you know, was to go the same way as before. Don’t get me wrong, the FIA was there, I was crazy person talking to my fear all the time. I had to the only way for me to process my fear was to talk to it was to ask it, because essentially, our emotions are coming to teach us something, they kind of show us something. And our thoughts and our emotions can be attached to past conditioning, past x, or conditioning and past experiences. So you know, my fear wasn’t cut, fear doesn’t come to keep you stuck. It’s coming to show you something. So I had to understand what my fear was coming to show me and it was just it was coming to keep me safe, because it obviously didn’t want me to be hurting again. So I was Yeah, I was forever talking to my fear and understanding it and being able to be in a position to you know, release it and to say that I was okay, and that I could understand where it was coming from but I didn’t need it. I didn’t need it to keep me safe anymore. I was okay. Right. But, you know, I took myself to the hospital when I was like 18 weeks because I had these cramps and I was like, I don’t know what they are. And I just, I was scared. So I took myself to the hospital and they’re like, What have you eaten? That might be different? That’s really, yeah, though. It was me it was something that I had eaten nails like no. Luckily, it was just that it was gas. So you know, we were we were good. But yeah, the throughout the whole pregnancy, I was grateful for the this that opportunity I was grateful for. I was grateful for all the horrible things that I was experiencing because I still knew that she was safe. And I was able to bond with her. I would every night I would touch my stomach and I would have a chat with her and I really, really just wanted to embrace the opportunity. I didn’t want my my loss To, to overshadow that and to sort of not allow me to really enjoy that. The miracle that that it is really to be pregnant. So it’s something that I’d wanted so so much like in my life that was, you know, how I saw my life playing out, you know, get married, have kids have a house buy a house like it was. That’s it. So although the week before, so because of my epilepsy, I had to be induced, they wanted to control the birth. So that I wasn’t I wouldn’t have seizures through the birth because they don’t obviously didn’t know how that kind of trauma to the body was going to react with my mind collapsing. And so. So I had a date that I was going in, and it was they only wanted me to wait to the 40 week mark. So the week leading into that, because I knew that I was obviously going in. I cried, I cried, and I cried the whole week, because I was then so scared that I wouldn’t hear her cry. My fear from when they said there’s no heartbeat had, like had kind of morphed into I’m sorry, you know, she’s not crying. And so gives me goosebumps.

So I had, yeah, I cried literally the whole week, leading into the induction. And once I was there, though, I, that fear had gone. I feel like I felt like I maybe had addressed it and acknowledged it. And once I got to the hospital, it was it was gone. It didn’t even cross my mind. And then when I was in obviously giving birth to her, it didn’t cross my mind. Although I was talking to a a coach friend, and she said, Well, if you were that scared, giving birth to her, your body wouldn’t have probably allowed you to because essentially, it’s a primitive being and it feels like it’s in danger. Your flavor will stop. Yeah, the labor will stop, and it won’t allow you to actually give birth because it feels like it’s threatened. And I was like, Okay,

well, it’s interesting, because on my side of things as a labor doula, we would have clients that we’ve kind of gotten some we knew, but some we didn’t know it all. And we take a few weeks to get to know them, and you get into labor. And suddenly at seven or six centimeters, the entire labor shuts down. And medically everyone’s like, well, we’re gonna have to do this and this. And yet I knew I need to get Mom real quiet for a minute, we need to talk what’s going on. And it was things like that it was repressed childhood traumas, it was like some big things would come out all of a sudden, it could be something as you know, we did lose a baby, or we did have this happen, or this is what’s going on. Or there were issues with, you know, just past body issues, and all kinds of things would come out as soon as there was space to acknowledge those fears, and even voiced them quietly to someone who understood, labor would pick right back up and away you go, but that your flight kicks in when your fear is intense. It’s a it’s a crazy, amazing way that

were made. Yeah, that our body is just that smart. And I believe we don’t give it enough credit. We don’t do and just wanted to touch on what you said before. It’s not just an emotion, like and even a thought. It’s not just a thought, like it actually has the potential to change your body on a cellular level. And I was it’s, you know, we don’t give our emotions we don’t give our thoughts enough credit for what they actually have the capacity to do. Um, so yeah, just even thinking you know, that I was going to be that afraid to have her my body probably wouldn’t have allowed me to. She ended up getting the umbilical cord wrapped around her neck and I ended up having they halfway through my labor I was pushing in, they kept losing her heartbeat. And even in saying that, like, I was like, I wasn’t afraid, though. At that point, like even though they kept saying they losing her heartbeat. I was like, okay, you’ve got it. Like,

I’m gonna push. You do the rest.

Yeah, but then ended up saying push but don’t push to get her out. And I was like, How do I do that? Work? Can you can you just like yeah,

for me. It’s like when you’re in the middle of pushing, it’s fun. I have spontaneous pushing so I can’t control it. And they tell you to stop pushing. me like that’s not gonna happen. That’s not

my contractions. Yeah, they will. They will come. Right. I was pushing like, I can’t not push They both. So it was just the midwife, my husband and me. And so they both sat down, and then just left me and it was like, how am I, like, I’m having contractions here? How am I gonna stop this? But they needed to get her out. So because essentially I was 10 centimeters dilated really, really quick, obviously, because of the induction probably a lot faster than what they actually thought I would get to read because it was like nothing, nothing, nothing. And then all of a sudden, those nine centimeters and they’re like, oh, okay, she’s counting. But I spent two hours pushing. So she was kind of stuck. Like essentially I said, the the umbilical cord was like a bungee rope around her neck, and it kept just pulling her back out. So they ended up calling in, I ended up having a room full then of specialists and other nurses and midwives. And they did a vacuum delivery so and then, like, super quick, Jeff, my husband said, you know, rat unwrapped the, the cord around her neck and passed her over to me. But, you know, even in, in looking back, I’m like so much. There’s so much that could have gone wrong in that sense. Like, especially with the umbilical cord being wrapped around her neck. Like I hear so many things. You know, that happened. And I’m like, I’m so glad though that in that in that moment, not none of that actually. Exactly. crossed my mind. Um, so yeah, she ended up. She came out. She was healthy and tiny. But I was like, and then we had a whole different issue with breastfeeding. So that was like, yeah, no, my next that was my next challenge after, you know, having her was you know, she didn’t latch I didn’t have colostrum. So it was just, it was an ongoing thing for probably a good three months or so.

Yeah, it’s like you run this grand marathon to bring this human into the world. And then they hand them to you. And they’re like, Okay, you’re ready for the next stage? might work. It might not we’re not sure yet. Oh, great.

And, you know, I was never told about breastfeeding even. You just sort of assume that they latch and you know, it’s all fine and roses. And you know, she didn’t latch she annihilated my nipples. She ended up having to mix feed her. Although now she’s three and a half. And she’s still breastfed. So I do, I started

because speaking of traumas, that was one thing as a postpartum doula that I trained in was birth trauma for babies. And we use the term trauma cautiously because you do what you have to do to have a baby safely, whether it’s vacuum or forceps, or C section. But with each of those interventions, comes an effect of trauma on either their neck muscles or their skull or their jaw, that then impacts breastfeeding. It’s just like a boop have been, but they don’t tell you that. It’s just, it’s just assumed you’re gonna figure it out and drives me crazy. Because when I was working in that field, I would go visit these mamas at 24 hours postpartum, or a day or two postpartum and seeing their their nipples are raw, and they’re crying and their baby’s hungry. And things that could have just been avoided. If someone had just said to them, by the way, you may need to have your child seen, you know, within the next few hours by the cranial sacral specialist to make sure their neck can be released. They’re not screaming when they go to latch on and all these things. There’s so much, but it’s so much it can be just to them, you know, so,

yeah, no kidding. I was. I was literally I think, crying for a solid weight while she was crying. Oh.

I love my babies. And it worked fine. I mean, I breastfed them easily. And they were wonderful for over three years for y’all almost all of them. And and I still cried. My first week was like, I don’t know what I’m doing. I don’t think they’re eating and meanwhile, this is what I’ve done for a living for years helping mom Yes. And I didn’t know what I was doing. You still have all the hormones, all the emotions, all the I don’t know is is everything. Okay?

Yeah, and that’s another thing too, like after you go through loss like I was. I was constantly checking her when she was asleep. I was breathing and, you know, I’m like, you know, I really I could I could acknowledge it when it was coming, but it was hard to not go over and check. Even the nights that she actually did end up sleeping through. I was like up every two hours. was checking on her and I’m like, I didn’t sleep. Like, that didn’t feel like I slept a wink, because I was still looking to see chills. Okay. So essentially the fear in the in that sense to it doesn’t leave you, it just changes. And again, it’s just finding ways that you can acknowledge that for yourself, and you can move through that. And you can say, well, you know, I’m experiencing this because of, you know, and I can put it, I can trace it back to my loss, like, you know, it’s, it’s all sort of, sort of embedded in there. And then, but when I can sort of talk to myself about it, like it’s, you know, I still sometimes would go over and check anyway, but I just knew that that’s what I was doing. Yes. As opposed to more of

an obsessive reaction. It was conscious, right? You’re like, Okay, I am feeling anxious right now. And, you know, I’m sure she’s fine. I’m gonna look anyway, because it’ll help me feel better. As opposed to just obsessively checking all the time, and just wearing that worry, in the pit of your stomach to the point where you have tummy issues, then you must have problems or now you’ve got pain between your shoulder blades, you don’t know why these things are your body says Hello.

Listen to me, you’ve got to listen, you’ve got to do that do something about this. It’s yeah, your body. Your mind is good at really sort of switching things off for you. But your body will always come back and remind you that there’s something there that you haven’t addressed. And, and, you know, ignoring something for that moment, might work short term, but long term, it’s going to come back and your body will just keep presenting something to you until you sit back stand up or does listen like it don’t keep just giving you something to listen. But yeah, then even like, now, like three and a half, like there’s so many things that are you know, she she got through the gate at the front door and run out to the, the garbage truck. And I was like, in my heart and like, oh, no, like, I could just picture her getting out onto the road and being hitting. Like, I created like these big thing in my head. But then I’m like, I still got a fear of losing her. And it’s, um, verify. If I acted on that fear, if I kept, if I will, I stopped her from doing things that are going to help her growth and development, she’s not going to grow and develop, right? If I put my feet under her, she’s not going to be the person that she’s meant to be. So it’s about me taking a step back and having to acknowledge you know, what it is that I’m moving through. But acknowledging it not just ignoring it, and, and letting it just all fester, you know? Yes,

absolutely. One of the tricks that I had a therapist one time say to me was, eat this sounds crazy to say this really, when you’re in the moment, but asking yourself, okay, hold on, what is the worst that could happen? Let’s say with a garbage truck, yes, she could run up the road. Yes, she could hit and yes, she could die. That is the worst gonna happen. And I would be wrecked. Right? Like, do you have to ask yourself that. But that’s where you have a moment to think through, take a breath and go. All right. Now instead of me losing it and screaming at them and yelling, you know, out of all those reactions out of fear. I am going to stop that from happening. But I’m going to do it in a manner that isn’t going to traumatize them either. Yeah, yeah. I know, there were actions I had after with my daughter when she was a baby. She was a very sick baby. So we went through some horrible that’s what started me I listened to her journey Actually, she’s my, my muse. Um, but she I it was a very real fear that I would wake up in the morning and she would not be breathing that was we went through a year of that and it was trauma on top of trauma on top of trauma. It just wrecked me physically, emotionally all of it for that whole first year. But now she’s growing and she’s she’s nine now and it’s we’re getting those ages we’re giving freedom becomes more apparent and she’s growing up. And I like you said, I have to remind myself, I’m not you can just take a breath. Right? You know, she wants to make a choice on our own. what’s the worst that’s gonna happen? Come up with like, 20 scenarios. Gonna end but realistically, well, yeah, well, I have to be able to swallow, swallow that breath down a little bit and just let it ride out and go okay. This is how I’m feeling right now. A lot of this is fear. My reaction is fear based. You know, my response to her is coming out of me. Fear. So I want to be careful because I don’t want it to be that, you know, because anger, or fear or reaction, or you know, all kinds of things so hard though,

oh, it’s so hard. And it is it could be Eddie’s just taking that moment to sort of process, you know, what’s going on for you. And, like, I talk a lot of way as well about responding rather than reacting, because when we react, it’s usually out of it is usually out of fear or out of something that’s happened. And we’ll say things potentially, that we don’t actually mean to say as well. You know, get angry, do something, potentially, that doesn’t serve the situation. So when you’re able to take that step back, and to actually sort of really think about it, it could only be, you know, a few seconds or, you know, yeah, to allow you to process you know, what could actually happen, but you’re in a much better place to respond to the situation and to have, you know, you know, she was fine, she came back in, we had a discussion and like, don’t, you can’t run out, darling. And like, you can’t do that, you know, we ended up putting closing the gate back on the door again. And, you know, I didn’t get angry at her for doing that, because she doesn’t know any better. But if I had overreacted out of my fear, it would have been a hell of a lot worse and formatic for her.

Yeah, we all do it. We all do it. Like I think there’s also this weight we were that we have to get right. Every time. I reacted in fear. And I yelled about something that scared me to death, right, you know, to very active voice. So this the same good the scenario for me where I’m like, okay, just breathe, they’re gonna do what you think you’re doing right now? Wherever, so many days, you know, you’re right. Like, it’s, I think it’s more about that learning the process of, I always say, take a breath. Because if I take a minute to just take a really deep breath and blow it out unless someone’s literally going to get hurt in that instance. Yeah, take that moment to just take a breath and your brain will do the work. It does. It does run through those those moments. But it’s something about that just gives us a minute to face it. And instead of reacting, you get a chance and you get a choice, then how am I respond right now, but when you’re when that trauma is unresolved when that you know there’s a buildup of trauma, like I spent years dealing with myself, though it’s really hard to do that. It really, it really has to be acknowledged it has to be walked through. And I think a big part of that is doing that with someone who can help you do it. And that’s something you’re doing so you know, I love that’s why study beginning I love what you’re doing because it is such a needed conversation. But as a mom, even for me, who’s been a doula I’ve been all the things I’ve worked with these families. I’ve worked in these scenarios. I’ve done bereavement doula work with mums who know they’re about to deliver a stillborn baby, things like that. Either. You can know all this stuff, but when it’s you, and it’s you walking through it, I needed somebody else, I needed to be able to talk to someone and to sound that off and to just say, you know, what’s the next step for me how I’m processing this, am I processing this well, but on that same respect, and I want to bring light to what you do is that you also are helping educate professionals who are working with these moments. So I think that is so powerful, because they need that aspect they need I will get into it this on this session. But I had a I had a terrible, I would say, I only work with midwives. Normally, I’ve never had to have a doctor or an obstetrician in my births. Um, and unfortunately, in this situation, I ended up needing a consult with one of our local obstetricians. I’d never met her before. And it was a horrible interaction. It left me more traumatized than then cared for in that in the middle of what was going down. So I really feel that there’s something to be said for teaching, and just helping them even just open their eyes to what we’re going through in those moments.

Yeah. And I just wanted to touch on what you said before, like sometimes the healers need healing too. You know, it’s not, you know, I’ve had to have my own coaches bring light to what I’ve gone through to my experience, because you’re so focused on helping other people that sometimes you do start to take on things that you don’t realize and I think we one of my coaches, I spent like the first month just crying, doing all of her sessions and workbooks because I was like, there was so much stuff that I thought I had processed that but there was more layers to it. There was more layers that were coming to my awareness. And that’s what that’s how your body works like it will. It will reveal your next layer to process when it’s ready, and it’s ever evolving process like your body was always keep giving you something to, to touch on to move through to heal to release. And, you know, I believe, just through my experience, there was not enough support specific to pregnancy loss. And you know, there is you do have your counselors and psychologists, but they’re just general kind of grief based, there’s no real understanding of what it really is that you have been through what why you are feeling the way that you feel why you have created these thoughts that you think. And so when I, after I went through my experience, I knew that I had to use it, I had to use my experience to help other women, because if I was feeling that way, there was other women that were feeling that way too. And essentially, I like to think of myself as sort of being outside your fishbowl, like you’re stuck in your world and in the, in what’s happening for you, I’m outside of that I can see the whole world I can see what you’ve been through, and I can guide you through what it is that you could potentially be struggling with at the time. And so that’s where I started offering the one on one coaching sessions and created a program, three month program from that. And then a like what we discussed before, there was also women that were reaching out to me wanting to know how they could be that support and educating them themselves on how they can better support women within their service. So that’s when I then designed another program where I educate women service providers, and essentially, I want to take it into the medical system, because it’s not the doctors don’t have that care and compassion and that bedside manner that actually is needed for women that go through pregnancy loss. So you know, just taking, getting education on how to actually hold space for people and but the program itself is you know, about having that next level, next layer of knowledge on how to support your women through your service. Because, you know, knowing that one in four pregnancies end in loss, a lot of women are going to be coming through the service that the women offer, potentially with unhealed emotional trauma and potentially won’t have, won’t be able to have the full transformation of that service because they can’t move through that trauma, they haven’t been able to process it, they’ve got blocks and limiting beliefs that they’ve created about themselves that potentially they feel they’re unworthy of, of having anything good in their life. Even in pregnancies, you know, I’ve heard so many women say that they can’t connect to their babies, and even after their birth, they have, you know, postnatal depression, and they can’t connect to their they, their baby after they’re born because of the loss that they had experienced. So that it just knowing the how many different areas of women of a woman’s life, the loss touches. There’s so many different ways and different places that women can have, which is where I’ll kind of want to, like I said to before, have world domination, different places that women can could gain access to, to pregnancy loss support. And yeah, it’s I can I see that I see, it’s so needed.

On one hand, women need to move through their emotions and move through their experience, and they need someone to help them through that. And they shouldn’t have to do that alone. Because just because society tries to tell you that it wasn’t worth grieving or whatever. And on the other hand, you know, women, service providers and health practitioners and stuff need to be educated on how to have that next next level of understanding and knowledge. So, you know, I really, I really love what I’ve created and I hope that I can I can spread it as much as possible and have women healing through this experience on so many

all I mean, at the end of the day, that’s that’s the gift that you’re giving is the voice to you know, like you said, get some clarity and some guidance but also yours to hear and just to let these women be heard. I mean, I after what I went through, I just wanted someone to listen to what I went through. But just like hear what like can you believe What just went down? You know, what are the OB I’m like, I need to just sit and tell someone this because this is the doc really just happened. This is so odd. Yeah. And it’s, it’s so valuable to have a space that’s safe to do that. So it’s yeah,

I’m Yeah, I believe that’s what I needed after the fact through my healing and I believe and that’s when i That’s why I created what I did, because I needed someone to kind of validate how I was what I was feeling because I’m like, everyone I spoke to were like, oh, no, like, you know, I haven’t experienced a miscarriage. I don’t know how you’re feeling or whatever. And I’m like, I just need to talk to someone who gets it. But who can actually help me through that?

That’s the key, we can talk to a lot of people where may not be helpful. Exactly. Oh, my goodness. One of the things I was surprised by remember after my first one was the number of times I said to somebody after who, you know, people who knew we were pregnant or whatnot, when we had to explain it. Oh, and they say, Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, I’ve had four miscarriages. Why? I didn’t like friends. I’ve known for years. Oh, yes, we’ve had, you know, we had a miscarriage last year. Alright, what never heard, never knew, right? Nobody ever said anything, never an end. As we’ve had these conversations, I’ve had people message me after their podcasts or, you know, after me sharing stories about my loss, and they’ll message me and say, Thank you, thank you for just talking about it, it’s as simple as I just need to have this conversation that need people need to just share that they’ve been through this. So you’re bringing to light such a needed service, and I would 100% It’s like therapy of any kind, I would say, it’s worth investing in yourself to talk to someone like yourself, because that alone will start you on the path, whether it’s the end of your path or not. It’s just it will get you those stepping stones to healing. And yeah, definitely, we need it. Yeah,

and it’s an like, like what we said before, like, healing is an ongoing journey. So whether it has been months, or weeks or months or years, like, it’s always something there for your body to move through. So even though you may not feel like oh, it’s been, you know, five years since my loss or 10 years since my loss, but you can still acknowledge that within you that there is something there that potentially needs to be worked through, then it’s something that your body’s telling you to listen, you know, move through that. And yeah, I just want women to know that it doesn’t necessarily have to be recent either. Like it can be you know, it’s like I said 2017 When I had hours and I still cry, I still have fears I still have triggers but the thing is you need to know how to move through those the fears and the triggers and everything and that sort of comes along with that. So

yeah, amazing. Keep doing what you’re doing and I will make sure all your you know links and how they can find you is all going to be included here so everybody can look you up. I hope we can chat some more. I could talk to you all day. I love this. I usually there’s always this handful of guests that I’m like, Okay, I need to we need to just go on the phone one day just chat. You know, there’s so much that resonates with what I do and what you know what you’re doing silent.


I am. I appreciate it so much.

No, thank you so much for having me. It’s been a pleasure.