When Trauma and Motherhood Collide

with Christa Bevan

This is an unedited transcript.

welcome to the Mondays podcast. I’m your host, Holly Lowe. And I am so grateful to be in this journey with you as we walk through all things to do with trauma recovery, and just the ups and downs of motherhood. My guest today is Krista Bevin and I, I actually had a really enjoyable time reading through some of your bio. And I’m excited to chat with you about this because you’re touching on exactly the heart of what this whole series is about. It’s about motherhood and trauma from our lives, our past, what those may might look like. And when those intersect, so when those come together, and suddenly we’re doing a multiple task, job, and life is happening at the same time, what is going on with all the stuff that we didn’t deal with really. So welcome. I appreciate you taking the time to come join us. And I’d love for you to tell us maybe just briefly what it is that inspired you to travel on this course for yourself and why you’re doing what you’re doing now.

Well, thank you, Holly, I’m excited to be here chatting with you. So I like to say that you don’t come to the work of healing trauma or having anything to do with trauma on accident, right? No one, no one picks this for fun. We come to it out of necessity. And the same is true for me. So I had a really traumatic childhood, I experienced a lot of emotional abuse in the household that I grew up in. And that really affected me in a lot of different ways. But it affected how I entered into motherhood. So for me, specifically, I knew long before my son was born, that I needed to do some of the work on myself first. Because even if it meant that I didn’t have kids, I would not pass what I had dealt with down to my son. And I knew that in order for that cycle to break, I had to do something about it. I knew that my parents hadn’t done the work. My grandparents had done the work. And I had this calling, I like to say that I knew deep in my bones that this was the work that I was set out to do. So I actually started a lot of my trauma healing work before my son was born. And I of course thought okay, this is good. Now let’s do this. My son came into the picture. It’s been almost three years. And I can tell you in those in those three years, it’s been as much trauma healing as I had done in the previous 10. Right, because even when we come in thinking that we’re prepared, kids trigger us and we’ve all heard that they push our buttons, they reflect back to us the unhealed parts of ourselves, and they do it expertly and with precision, and then it’s our job. I think, as I call us radical mothers and mothers that are dedicated to breaking the cycles of generational trauma, I see it as a radical mother’s job to take those trauma triggers and say, Okay, I see you Let’s dance and do something with those to really transform the experience that your children have of their childhood, to be the one you wish yourself had had

amazing. That’s I love that you said, it’s something that I used to think as a, I spent many, many years as, you know, infant specialist infant development, all of that 1820 years of that long before I had my own children and I went into same thing went into motherhood, thinking, I’ve got this, I’ve done this. I’ve done this with other people’s babies for 20 years, you know, just like, you know, being a birth doula before I had my own babies, and then going into labor, and having a completely emergency scenario where you know, paramedics are laughing at me going, why wouldn’t you have known better? A lot of shame involved in that and trauma that came from my birth experience. That took me years to unpack, but it’s, it’s a thing that we think I’ve dealt with that or it didn’t really affect me. Or, you know, really, would that be classed as trauma. And I’ve heard that come up from friends from clients, and birth definitely triggers some trauma, you know, memories and things that they would never have considered would have been traumatic in the past. But suddenly, they’re in a situation being vulnerable. And it’s all coming out. So what, you know, give us just some ideas of what are some types of trauma? Obviously, we there’s the known no more, the more obvious things, but maybe some of those unknowns that we might not have classified as that, but are going to affect us and do affect us?

Yeah, because that’s the thing, you know, even with the, the women that I work with, they still will sometimes say to me, but I had a good childhood, like, how can I be? How can I be triggered in this way for my own child when my my childhood was okay, and I’m like, Well, was it really because there’s a difference between what sort of called Big T trauma which are the ones that, you know, we sort of all know about, and that are easily classified by outsiders as trauma, a car accident, that’s traumatic, you know, natural disaster that’s traumatic, right, these sort of big things that anyone can easily say that’s a trauma, but then there’s all the kinds of little T traumas that start to add up, and it’s sort of like death by 1000 paper cuts. And there’s also little traumas, or excuse me, they’re not always little, there’s traumas that we may not understand even happened to us. So one of those that I see really frequently are attachment, traumas and insecure attachments that we have with our primary caregivers. So think back to when you were a baby, when you were an infant and a toddler. What was your relationship with? Excuse me? What was your relationship like, with your caregivers? Was it loving? Was it nurturing? Did they meet your needs? Were they comforting when you cried? Or did they leave you to cry it out? Right? That’s a trauma that we don’t always call a trauma. But I know this was true for me. And my mother admits now she’s like, that’s what we did. That’s what we were told to do. I left you in your crib to cry. And the reality is, is that for a tiny baby’s nervous system that is most often traumatic, it overwhelms them, okay. And so these are things that you may not even realize you experienced, until flash forward, you’re an adult, and now it’s affecting your ability to keep and maintain positive, healthy relationships with others, including your own children sometimes, so we can experience traumas without knowing it, we can experience the trauma of things like bullying, emotional abuse, like I dealt with unpredictability and chaos that can be traumatic for our system, right? Trauma really, at its core is anything that’s too much too soon, too fast for our system, to able to handle and integrate. And it and it happens in the absence of trusted allies and caregivers and people that we can rely on. And so when we don’t have those things, and then we experience things that overwhelm us, that can be traumatic, and especially in early childhood, we hold on to those things in our subconscious minds. And really, most importantly, as well, we hold on to them in our bodies. Yes. And our body remembers that trauma that we’ve experienced, even if consciously we have no memory or or idea about it. And that’s where I see a lot of times those sort of latent traumas come to surface when we have these reactions, again, to our own children who are pushing our buttons. And we’re seeing here going, Wait a minute, what just happened? Why am I responding this way to my toddler, it doesn’t make any sense. And sometimes those disproportionate reactions are sort of a clue that there’s something going on below the surface there that indicates some unresolved trauma somewhere in your system.

Absolutely. That’s that’s very good. Very clarifying. And I think for us as moms or dads or whatever I think for us to be able to watch what our hot buttons are, you know, what is it that makes you just you know, I’m steaming now because my kid always when my kid does this, I always or I feel like when when those things are coming up. It’s really I’ve learned not from professional help at the time when my guys were little but now I’ve learned over the years to watch those triggers because like you’re saying, there’s something behind that, there’s, there’s always a route to that trigger, there’s always something there now. I mean, you know, your kid dumped a can of paint on your fresh carpet, you’re allowed to get upset. You know, you can be upset by that. It doesn’t necessarily mean there was a trauma involved. But when you’re seeing a repetitious reaction, or you’re seeing a quick reaction, kind of you’re saying when you see those emotions coming up, and maybe you walk away feeling guilty, or you walk away feeling ashamed of how you reacted or unsure of why did that commit like that? I think, would you agree that’s a good spot to kind of focus in a little bit and just go hmm, you know, there might be something there.

Totally. Again, it’s like I just said, it’s that sort of disproportionate reaction. If your kid dumps paint on the carpet, an appropriate reaction would be to be upset and a little frustrated that they didn’t I mean, that would that’s weighing right, like I’ll say it. And so it’s not to invalidate big feelings that you’re having. It’s if your child, you know, is doing the typical game where they drop something off the end of their, what’s it called highchair, and then you pick it up, and they keep doing it, and then all of a sudden, you’re yelling at them for that. That’s where it’s like, wait a minute that that doesn’t quite match up? That doesn’t quite make sense. Why is that so triggering to you that you are then resorting to yelling? That doesn’t quite make? Is that reaction, does that fit your child’s behavior? And the answer is no. In this case, probably not really. So what’s the what’s their what’s underlying that, that’s causing you to react that way? Yeah. And that’s, again, where I think you can start to get some really good insights into looking at, at some of those roots for yourself. And also, a lot of times too, I find that when it comes to our children pushing our buttons that there’s often a connection with our own wounded inner child, that’s, that’s acting up and needing some comforting and mothering from ourselves in that moment.

Absolutely. It’s funny, I remember feeling this with my third. So I have three, three kids. And he you think by that, by that point, you’ve got it down, you know, I’ve done this, I’ve got this figured out. And in a way you do, like there’s certain basics that you’ve kind of covered, but each kid’s different. And he is very high emotions, like when he feels something he feels big. And that’s I like that you said that it’s okay to have big emotions, okay, as a parent, it’s okay as a kid to have those big feelings. But I think dealing with those, invalidating them in a healthy way, and learning how to regulate, like you said, even for those babies, when you know, they’ve only known safety, security and being fed and warm, and movement and held and all of those things. And to left a credit that’s not even natural to them. They don’t even understand that. It’s the same for our kids. I mean, as an adult, if we’re not in a place where we can, in a healthy way, teach them to moderate their emotions, if we’re not doing it, if we’re not being an example of that. Why on earth would we expect that from someone who’s still in a phase where they have no concept of, you know, like, what that means to even moderate those big feelings. So I think it’s super important. And that’s why I’m doing this is I think it’s so important as, especially as mamas because we really do have a very strong influence on our kids to just learn, just learn how, what’s a healthy way to deal with this, what’s a healthy way to walk through this ourselves, and our kids will learn from us, my oldest is 13. And anytime I’ve done therapy, or I’ve learned things, I’ve shared it with him, and I’ve talked things through with him, and he just absorbs it all and takes it in and uses it, which I think is brilliant. And as their, you know, age appropriate to learn from you in that way. It’s kind of cool. So, so I want to know a little bit more about that inherited side, because it’s definitely something that weighs on me as I get, like I said, with the age range I have, I can see, I can see what I’ve done, I can see some of the things and the mistakes I’ve made. And not to not to hold that or to weigh that on myself. But to move forward with some you know, you know better you see better, we do better. That’s kind of my motto. So when we’re trying to learn this and break it and not pass this on, what are some things we can do that’ll help that?

So I think one of the best things that we can do is learn about our nervous system. Yeah. And that doesn’t sound that sexy. But I can tell you that that has been one of the best things I have ever done for myself in my life was understand more I called nervous system literacy, right? becoming literate about your nervous system and the innate wiring of how it’s designed to work. Because when we’re dealing with trauma, we can often feel like our innate stress responses are actually betraying us in the moment. And really, they’re trying to protect us and when we can start to understand the ways in which they’re protecting us start to notice the the the warning signs that they’re coming, start to work with them, we can turn that betrayal into something else we can start to befriend our nervous system and when we do that we have so much power to be able to show up in our lives in ways We choose instead of letting ourselves be steamrolled by these unchecked responses, and so I see nervousness and literacy, and then going hand in hand with that understanding the ways to regulate your nervous system as being crucial things for all parents. And then like you were saying, when we do that work, when we start to understand those things, and put that into practice in our own lives, not only are we working on our traumas, but we’re also teaching our children how to regulate their nervous system. And if you think about it, this is the piece that I find that was missing for us because our parents didn’t do this. Typically, I find that radical mothers who have a trauma history, if they start to dig into it, their parents were dysregulated on a regular basis, which caused the trauma or perpetuated the trauma. So if you want to be a better cycle breaker, learn to regulate your nervous system danced with your nervous system. And it will be the watershed moment that changes everything that you do after that

is so amazing. And that’s right up my alley. I love everything to do with our how our cells are responding to trauma, how our body retains it, and it’s just, it’s a very powerful thing. So I will talk a little about that in a minute, we’ll be right back.

Alright, so I want to take a little, just a brief look, because this is, again, something that is a passion of mine. But having dealt with a lot of Mama’s in the fertility journey, and, um, you know, unresolved infertility issues, no known medical reasons for that, and I’m going off a little bit I know, but I’m using that as an example. But it comes out in our own bodies, and it comes out in our children’s health and all the other things that happen in our home. As far as health goes, our nervous system is just the wiring that is, is caring for our body. And if it is constantly firing, your hormones are off your fight or flight is in high measure. And this is the same for our kids. So that whole regulation side of things, if the trauma, whatever, whether it’s repressed whether it’s known or unknown, it’s firing in your body, right at a cellular level. And it’s pretty wild how that comes out in all kinds of forms of physical symptoms. Is that something that you’ve seen or that you, you know, you can attest to?

Yeah, absolutely. So it does it, you know, we research shows us that chronically activated Nervous System States lead to things like chronic inflammation, right. And we know that chronic inflammation is linked to all of the leading causes. Chronic chronic inflammation is like the underlying health concern of our time, right. And so, yes, it does end up affecting all areas of your life that you may not even think are connected to this unresolved trauma. I experienced it in my own life, because I was suffering from panic attacks. So for me, it was expressing I had my first panic attack when I was 12 years old. And it took me almost 20 years of trial and error and doing what felt like all the things to actually get those under control with it was this uncontrollable chronic anxiety as well. And it wasn’t until I came across a modality called TR e which is tension and trauma releasing exercises, which works with the physical body to remove and release that stored tension and trauma, that I got any kind of relief, and I was able to eliminate panic attacks from my life. But it took working with my body to be able to do that. And it amazes me that it’s you know, what your it’s 2021 still, that we don’t go there first, yes, when treating these things, when the reality is that’s where most of it is held, it’s not in our brain so much as it’s in our body. And when we can start to understand that and recognize that the symptoms that we’re having, whether that’s panic attacks, or autoimmune conditions that can be linked to trauma, or like you’re talking about imbalanced hormones that are affecting our fertility, those can all be traced back to unresolved traumas. And when we start to work with the body, and do what we need to to get those things sort of out of our system and get that activation to sort of simmer down, then we can start to it’s this domino effect where everything else can sort of start to fall into place and work the way that it’s designed to but with that active fire of of nervous system activation burning in the body, there’s little room for anything else to do its job

correctly. Absolutely. Okay. I want you to dive a little more about that. So talked about that. How are you working with the tension release? What what does that look like? In a practical sense?

Yeah, so you know tre is one thing theory is tapping into neurogenic tremors that your body has the capacity of doing and you’re Body has this built in mechanism for literally it’s tremoring or shaking. And it’s a way to discharge excess fight or flight hormones. So when we think about this, if you hear a noise that wakes you up in the middle of the night, what happens? Your breath gets shallow, your heart starts pounding, you get sweaty, you usually freeze, trying to figure out what was that you know, somebody, you know, you’re frozen, right? But your heart is like, Whoo, yeah. And then you realize, oh, it was the wind blew the door shut. That’s all the noise was, well, what what happens? You’re laying in bed, you figured out what the noise is, guess what, you’re still frozen, your heart is still beating a mile a minute, you’re still sweaty, and your breath is still shallow. Okay, so even though you’ve removed the stressor, the cause of the unknown noise, and you’ve you’ve removed that you’ve answered the riddle, what made the noise, you know, it’s not somebody breaking into your house, you haven’t actually dealt with the stress that’s in your body. And that’s an important distinction between stressors and stress. So the stress those hormones, the adrenaline and cortisol and epinephrine that’s running through your body is still there. And so you need to do something to remove that type burn that up. If you think about fight or flight. Those are both very physical expressions, right? If you’re fighting, somebody takes a lot of physical stamina. And if you’re running, it also takes physical stamina when you do either of those things. It uses up that adrenaline cortisol that was pumping through your body. But the reality is, most of us aren’t fighting. And we’re not fleeting, right? And we’re not using that up. So what happens is those are coursing through our body, and they’re staying elevated. And then we’re moving into the next stressful event. And then our cortisol is staying elevated, and then the next one, and then the next one, and we don’t take time to sort of come back down to what should be our baseline, right? So then our baseline becomes high cortisol. And then a high cortisol leads into things like burnout and adrenal fatigue. And then low cortisol, because you your body has lost the capacity to even create it, because you’ve been running on high for so long, right? This creates this cascade of things. So when we can start to understand that we can work backwards, and go, Okay, that was a really stressful experience that I just had, do I still feel it in my body? Have I done something to resolve the stress that I experienced? Or am I just moving right into the next thing? Am I doing what it takes to nourish my nervous system on a regular basis to keep it in this place of a low activation. And again, for most of us, we’re not doing that. So the world that we live in to sort of 21st century modern life is pretty inherently stressful. And then motherhood is stressful, and then unresolved trauma in our body actually ends up becoming a source of stress in and of itself. So we sort of layer all these things on and without taking time to do anything about it leads to all these things that we’ve just been talking about. So instead, we want to have sort of a twofold plan, we want to deal with stress in the moment, as it happens, we want to be able to do things to unwind, release that discharge it from our system. And then we also want to have sort of a maintenance plan for ourselves, to keep stress at bay to improve our resilience. So that when stress inevitably happens, I’m always telling clients, yes, is inevitable. I can’t, I can’t stop it from happening, but I can help you prepare for it better, then we’re actually able to meet it with more resilience so that it doesn’t overwhelm us. It doesn’t break us, we’re able to sort of roll with it and then bounce back from it. Right, you can sort of think of that resilience as sort of like the, the amount of stretching a rubber band, right? We want there to be stretched, because if it’s out all the way, and then another stressful thing, it snaps the rubber band, right? And that’s sort of what causes us to move into and stay in a dysregulated state. And we don’t want that

well. And just the term I snapped. And like Yeah, exactly right. Literally it like That’s literally how it feels in those moments, especially as a mom or in a situation where your kids really, were just being kids. They were, it was not deserving of a snap. But we’ve stretched ourselves to the point where that’s all we’re capable of. We feel that’s all we’re capable of in that moment. Absolutely. I appreciate that. That’s really good information. It’s it’s something that took me too long to learn. And I’m still learning right? All of us, right? There’s all these things that you go, okay, I can only take in so much information as I’m going through this mothering journey. But again, you bite off those bite sized things as you’re dealing with what’s important to you and what matters and I think this is just a part that affects every area of our life. It affects our health, it affects our family dynamics, it affects our relationships with spouses or whatnot. It’s all there. So it’s kind of that big bite you you got to take off at some point and start to you got to start to chew it and start to get through some of this work and doing it with summons. Obviously 100% I can tell you so much easier to do it with someone who’s supporting you. So tell me a little bit how that works with you like how, how do you support people who are wanting to do some of this recovery? Yeah, so

really, a lot of it is laying this foundation of nervous system regulation, understanding what it takes starting to integrate that into your life. And I’m glad I love that you brought up that it’s easier with another person, because that actually works with our physiology, and that we can co regulate. So when we’re having difficulty self regulating, which a lot of us have trouble with, because we didn’t learn how we can actually co regulate and sort of borrow another person’s nervous system state to match and reflect what we want to be experiencing, right. And so when you work with someone else, rather than trying to do this work on your own, it magnifies what you’re able to do. And as it escalates, that’s not quite the right word or one, but it makes it go quicker, right? Because, and this is actually what we’re doing as parents, right. A lot of the times for our children, we are acting as the CO regulator for them, which is why this work is so important, because if we’re dysregulated, we all know this, we’ve all shown up to a tantrum is not our best selves, and what happens, the tantrum lasts longer. But if we can show up to the tantrum, kind of calm and cool and collected and appropriately detached from the emotional intensity of it, then what happens our child attunes to us, and they calm down much quicker not to say that they don’t tantrum, and they don’t have to go through that. But they come out of it a lot quicker, we are helping them co regulate. So essentially, when I work with people, we learn about effective stress discharge, we learn Tre, we understand about the nervous system, and then I provide what I call expert companionship of walking this path of mothering radically and doing things differently than what the modern mothering paradigm would tell us to do. Because this is a radical act of prioritizing your own wellness and your own care in service of your children. And so we don’t see good examples of this in our culture in society. And so it still feels like something that we’re having to learn how to do and sort of go into uncharted territory, when the other moms at the playgroup or the other moms in the Facebook forums are not necessarily doing what we are doing. Right. So it takes a certain, you know, tightrope walker, figuring that out. And so I provide companionship and expert advice, because I’m doing this work alongside people.

Yeah, that’s amazing. I love that you brought up like moms group type scenario, it’s always funny to me when I’m in a lot of them more as a fly on the wall. But it’s so true that that’s our culture, a culture has become one of either just venting, frustrations and complaining, not really needing a solution or taking in people’s ideas or solutions. It’s more just that I’m at my wit’s end, I’m gonna snap or I did snap. And you’re, you’re talking to a whole group of other moms dealing with trauma, too, you know, so in, you do need someone who’s qualified, to certain extent to be there, that you can trust, and that is a safe place for you to grow, not necessarily someone who’s just going to add their own trauma onto your trauma. You know, I’ve read responses after and I’m going that was the least helpful thing, you know, like, this poor mom just need someone to come alongside her and say, You’re gonna be okay. You know, like, let’s help you. Right. Well, and that’s just dealing with issues. But you’re, you know, you need to be taken care of right now.

Yeah. Yeah. It’s interesting, you bring up venting, because I think venting is a really a kind of a good example of how people attempt to meet their needs of social connection, right? Because that’s what they’re doing. They’re trying to discharge stress from their right without knowing it. But that’s what venting does. The problem is if you’re venting to other people who are in the same situation, who are just piling on to that, instead of sort of holding space for you, to help you co regulate down and down regulate, then the venting just becomes an echo chamber of complaining that isn’t productive. And that’s why sometimes those groups because I’m a fly on a wall of a lot of groups myself, yeah, they’re not helpful. And so it’s like our attempts at making ourselves feel better. But they’re, they’re sort of they’re aimed in the wrong direction.

Yeah, the village is there for a purpose. And I, I appreciate that about it. And I appreciate that we have the ability to be at a distance and reach out and get support. That’s all wonderful. But just like you said, I think there’s a time and a place when it’s something especially when it’s something where you feel it’s repetitive in your life or in your parenting. Or it’s something that you feel it’s my kids problem, but the reality is, who’s the one who owns the problem? I remember this in psychology class years ago, in child psychology, the question of who actually owns the problem, you know, as my kid came into Walmart with me and is having a tantrum now, because I never set any boundaries over the fact that I’m only Going into grab a grocery item, I’m not walking through the toy department, that was my problem, I own the problem, they didn’t have a problem, they would have been quite happy to just walk through the rest of the store. So I just remember little things like that and, and heading into parenting and thinking, okay, you know, boundaries play into this and our own, you know, healing plays into this fight until you’re in it until you have that moment with your baby in your hands. Or that toddler you know, during that first major tantrum, until you’re faced with it, it rewrite, it really does dig up things and then push buttons and find the sore spots. I always say it’s like poking a bruise. And pay attention to those. And I think that really is key. And I love that you’re doing the work you’re doing. Because as moms, we don’t necessarily always need talk therapy. We don’t always need psychotherapy, there are times for that. And I remember so many of my friends being shocked when I said I did years of therapy, because it was just where I was at and what I needed to be able to, you know, gain some of that, you know, boundary space back and all the things that I hadn’t learned appropriately over the years. But I think just on like what you’re doing in a day to day, real life basis, that’s what we need. We need more mums who are doing what you’re doing. More are going to be radical and who are going to say, this might not be the popular, popular opinion in your mom’s group. This might not be what the sleep experts say this might not be. But what is your body needing? What is? What is your family system needing? And let’s start, you know, working from there. So I love Well, thank you. Yeah, absolutely. Don’t ever stop. Keep going. Okay, so how can people we’re going to put up all your links and all that good stuff. If somebody wanted to work with you when they’re listening to this? And they’re like, I need to chat with Krista, how would they go about doing that.

So you can come join my virtual village, which is my Facebook group for radical mothers, which is named the radical mother village. And it is not just a venting group, it is actually a really wonderful supportive, encouraging space. And then you can find more information, I have a course about regulating your nervous system and understanding all of the stuff that we’ve been talking about. You can find information about that. And then also coach doing private coaching work with me on my website, which is Krista bevin.com.

Amazing. I’m gonna check that out. I love it. So yeah, we we do a lot of this work with our own clients, obviously, working with aromatherapy. And that’s my field of expertise. But this is there’s so many beautiful modalities that can be merged together when you’re working to heal yourself. And that’s something that I hope people are taking away from these, you know, podcasts in the series that we’re doing is just picking and choosing and saying what’s the part I’m going to start at, and I think you’d be a perfect first step really like for anybody who just wants to walk on this journey of, of facing trauma maybe or just recognizing the patterns that are going on. So that’s my recommendation. First stop. Okay.

Thank you. That’s a great recommendation. I love it.

Well, we will definitely talk talk more, because I know there’s there’s other topics we could chat more about for our moments. But thank you for today. Appreciate your time. Thank you. It’s been a great conversation. Awesome. Well done. Okay. Lovely. Amazing. Definitely want to check out your group. Yeah,

I mean, I don’t want to brag, but I think it’s pretty awesome. And Mama’s in there routinely tell me they’re like, I hate Facebook. But I love your group. And it’s a testament to the power of a group of people who are all on the same page about what we’re here for. So

well, in culture, that’s a huge testament to the culture you’re building, right. And whatever culture in your business or in your groups or your atmosphere that you’re creating, it stands alone. And that’s beautiful. Because there really is such a varied, you know, variety of things available to moms out there right now, especially on Facebook and I I know there’s so many than that I’ve left the groups and then I feel bad because I’m like, someone needs to be in there needs to be a voice of reason. But

I’m in some like attachment parenting groups that are like talking about leaving their kids to cry. And I’m like, what have we did you you stumbled into the wrong place? Yeah. And also, people are still doing that.

That’s still a thing

and like talking about spanking their kids and like, I’m just like, Oh, my goodness, I will never be out of work to do. Yes. Like a good thing and a terrible thing. I don’t want work to do. Like, I don’t, I don’t want to be needed. But unfortunately, I am still needed. And there

will be trauma. It’s just the way Great. Well, true, but well, and and the interesting thing is we you know, I’m from the generation of my mom’s in our 70s. So it’s it’s that generation, like you’re saying, depending on what age you’re at, but we’ve got a whole generation coming of, you know, teens now and young adults who are gonna start having kids that are in a whole other area of trauma that we haven’t Even experienced and right? It’s gonna be an interesting, man. I feel like our generation in a way, I’m probably a little older than you. But our generation in a way is, is doing the right things to a certain extent as far as recognizing, like just being able to say, wow, like, our parents didn’t know what they were doing to a certain extent either. We need to do some work. We need to do it better. I just only hope that we can keep teaching that to our kids. I’ve already taught my kids hoping. Yeah, he’s good. Support is good. Like, right. professional help is good. Yeah. I feel like it’s yeah. Don’t be afraid of therapy.

Yeah. Yeah. Same.

Well, once we can keep doing that with the next generations will be hopefully a step ahead. But here’s hoping, Oh, yeah. You’ll have less work. Yes. Yeah. All right. I appreciate your time. Thank you so much. We’ll try it again. Okay, that sounds great. Thank you, Holly. i Okay. Take care.